The Comp Strategist (Part 2) — Comp + Coffee: Ep. 32

In our last episode (if you haven’t already, give Part 1 a listen) we talked about how to get the most informative, organized data.

Today, we’re diving into how Comp Strategists translate what they’ve learned from that data to the rest of their company.

Also known as?

Being a savvy communicator.

In this second installment of our three-part series, we explore why being an effective liaison is so crucial and how you can communicate like a Comp Strategist.

Like what you hear? Make sure to rate and review! And if you haven’t subscribed to Comp + Coffee yet, you can follow us on Apple PodcastsGoogle MusicSoundcloud, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And if you REALLY want to kickstart your compensation transformation, download our free ebook on how to become a Comp Strategist!

Get it here and get started on the next phase of your comp career.


For a full transcription of the episode, see below.


Kaite: What is happening to us?

Shawn: I don’t know. This is the most giggle-y I’ve seen Bill though. It’s really funny.

Kaite: Seen.

Shawn: And we’re live.

Kaite: Bill, are you crying?

Bill: Yes. I don’t know why.

Shawn: I don’t know what to do with an intro now.


Shawn: And we’re live. Bill, Kaite?

Bill: Shawn.

Shawn: It’s Thursday. You’re sipping your cold brew there, Kaite?

Kaite: It’s “Comp + Coffee.”

Shawn: You brought your coffee. Okay.

Kaitie: I came with my coffee. Where’s your coffee, Shawn?

Shawn: I got water.

Kaite: It’s a fancy water, and you have, you’re dehydrated over there.

Bill: Yeah. I’ve had plenty of coffee.

Shawn: Bill’s three shots deep right now. It’s the afternoon.

Bill: Two shots of coffee, to be clear.

Kaite: Espresso?

Bill: No, it’s just coffee.

Shawn: So, welcome back.

Kaite: Thanks, Shawn.

Shawn: A couple quick housekeeping notes to cover before we dive into today’s topic, the second version or the second stage of comp strategy. Bill, you rightly pointed out, Jerry Seinfeld’s a little, a little not happy with us right now.

Bill: It’s true.

Kaite: But we’re not a knockoff of “Cars,” meaning, “In Cars With Coffee.”

Shawn: Well, that’s what he was unhappy about.

Kaite: We’re not that.

Shawn: No, I’m making fun that Jerry Seinfeld believes too many people are trying to mimic him and Bill’s taking improv classes.

Kaite: Bill is taking improv classes. That’s…

Bill: Jerry should be worried.

Shawn: He should respect the craft.

Bill: It’s an honor for Jerry that we’re…

Kaite: We just happened to also like alliteration and coffee.

Bill: And comp.

Kaite: And comp. But there’s no car so it’s different.

Shawn: I wanna see Jerry Seinfeld do a market pricing. You know what I’m saying? Yeah.

Bill: I challenge him.

Shawn: If you’re gonna be upset with other people doing podcasts, I’m gonna be upset with other people trying to do comp. It’s just fair. So hopefully we’re not doing any injustice to Jerry Seinfeld or annoying Jerry Seinfeld.

Bill: I’ll try to stop being funny.

Kaite: It’s gonna be hard, Bill.

Shawn: It’s really gonna be tough.

Bill: I know.

Kaite: Jeez.

Shawn: It’s like the River Nile though, it just flows.

Bill: Yeah, it’s true.

Shawn: So that was the initial housekeeping. Hopefully, we aren’t upsetting Jerry Seinfeld anymore. I don’t think it was us, to be fair, but I think…

Kaite: Probably, it was us. Let’s be honest.

Shawn: I think you should respect Bill’s craft in putting in the work in improv. The second, we’ve done a couple of podcasts now that were more in the realm of when your career advances, things to consider. So, the soft skills, one, with Uch [SP], the vacation as you start to manage employees.

Kaite: The one with Rick Mace about strengths…

Shawn: Strengths. Your biggest strengths and also your biggest weaknesses, right. So those are kind of more ethereal, but they’re more around as you advance your career, as you get into leadership, as you manage teams, things to consider, things to make sure you’re aware of. We’re gonna bring it back and discuss more thoroughly our belief that every comp analyst has a comp strategist inside them. And we’re going to help spell out the characteristics of what might help you be more strategic and become a business ally so that you can earn your seat at the table, and can be viewed as the strategic partner in the business. And not reactive, right, and not just being responsive to everybody, but actually really driving the conversation, helping the organization develop its philosophies, its strategies around pay so that it has a positive effect on attracting and retaining the best talent for your organization. Today’s the second installment. In the first go round, we talked about what we call being organized, but really what it meant was making sure that you have the best data and technology available to your organization so that when you’re making comp decisions, you have the most real -time data available that’s very highly tailored and customized to your needs. And that might even be around the per job basis. That’s not just on a high level. That is literally down to the job basis.

Today, we wanted to talk about communication because if you have that thorough understanding and are organized within comp, and you can explain why you do what you do well, well, then it’s time to level up and communicate that to everybody in the organization so that you can set that foundation for being a business ally. If your house is in order, if you’re doing your job well, your department’s doing well, well, then you can explain to other people what that means. Why are you doing well? What is the value that you’re providing?

Bill: I think it’s true. I think there’s a lot of value that the compensation person can bring to the table and that the job is not just to figure out how much to pay people or even how to pay people, but why and to get the organization to understand the “why” and to understand better the…

Kaite: And the “how,” right? Like…

Bill: Yeah, yeah, sure. You know, and help people understand why it’s important what we’re gonna do, why we’re gonna do it, how we’re gonna do it, and to really educate, usually senior management, but all levels of management, so that everyone understands so that they can talk about compensation, and again, all those same issues with their employees, their direct reports.

Shawn: Yeah, I think it’s every comp person’s, I mean, biggest fear. There’s bigger fears in the world. But, I think it’s one of their annoyances when somebody comes to a manager, an employee comes to a manager and says, “I did research online. It says I should make more than I make. I need a raise.” And there’s two errors in that. That means typically, then, the manager is gonna come to you because they probably don’t understand the philosophy around pay and the mechanics behind it. And that means the employee probably doesn’t understand it either. Now, there’s one of those that’s much easier to start to fulfill on, right? There’s one… You can better educate the managers to handle that situation, and that is a huge goal of compensation. I think if they are your frontline advocates, they’re gonna be the first and encounter this stuff almost all the time. So, educating them on the value mechanics of pay, communicating with them is one of the easiest ways to start to tackle these problems, these annoyances.

Bill: Well, and it’s also important to do that in advance of the employees going upward, because once that’s in their mind, it’s much, much harder to get them to think that that’s not the truth, regardless of how much you communicate. So, communicating earlier. And usually it is communicating through the management structure, you know, letting your managers, when they’re talking to employees about performance and talking to them about their role in the company, let them know, like, how pay decisions are made, why they’re made, you know, how we evaluate you, what we compare you to, all those things, so that the, if the managers are having those conversations, the employees are hearing those messages, not necessarily full sit down, hour-long meetings, but hearing those messages over and over again, you know, it’s a classic communication mantra, whatever you wanna call it, of, you know, just drip, drip, drip.

Shawn: Keep saying it 17 times…

Kaite: I was just gonna say.

Shawn: …and the seventeenth time they’ll hear you. There’s dual purpose to that, right? If you educate managers better, they understand your value, and then it’s scalable. They’re your frontline advocates in repeating these things when you’re not in the room.

Kaite: Yeah. It’s just, it’s a good practice to… I wonder how many employees and managers really understand the ins and outs of comp, you know. I mean, does the average employee know about the process that comp goes through? I don’t think so.

Bill: Do they even know what a salary structure is or how it works? And you know, like…

Kaite: Or do they just think it’s like someone pulled it out of thin air, or like my boss just set this because that’s what they just decided that’s what they wanna pay?

Bill: Right. That it’s somewhat arbitrary or…

Kaite: Yeah.

Bill: …you know, you’re throwing darts.

Shawn: So, Kaite, when you go to communicate with managers, for example. Now we can talk about this and break this down on all levels in terms of what they probably care about more than others. But when you communicate with managers, what are the things to keep in mind?

Kaite: I think when you’re communicating something with anybody, no matter what the topic is, you need to communicate what it means for them and that’s how they’re gonna listen, right? So, if you’re communicating with your managers, you not only need to communicate just your general, like, here’s what our comp philosophy is and here’s how we arrived at it, and here’s how we kind of, like, go through that. But also, this is what it means for you and your employees. And explain it to them in terms, like cut the jargon, explain it to them in everyday terms that they’re going to understand, make sure they understand how, you know, if your comp philosophy is that you pay at the 55th percentile, like, explain what that means and how that is going to affect the attrition on their team or hiring, you know, new employees on their team.

Bill: Or why they can’t pay somebody something that’s at the 85th percentile of the market.

Kaite: Yeah, yeah. Or if it’s a unique role, why, you know, if it’s the web developer, we use this example a lot for the web developer with, like, a very hot skill set, like why they might need to pay a little bit more for that and, kind of, make up for costs in another way.

Bill: Well, that’s not just about why, you know, there’s a presumption and all this, why we can’t pay you more than we’re paying you now, but there’s also the follow on to that which is what you need to do to be paid the amount you wanna be paid, or, you know, what performance levels or performance goals you should have or skill…[crosstalk 00:10:08.935].

Kaite: Yeah, yeah. Like, what you need to do to level up.

Bill: Right. You know, I think, also, like, in addition to what you were saying, Kaite, I think there’s a lot about making sure you talk in terms they understand.

Kaite: Yeah. So I think that’s key.

Bill: You brought that up and, you know, we used to refer to it as like the Grandmother Test. How would you explain this to your grandmother? Or, you know, pick any other person that’s, you know…

Kaite: An 8-year-old.

Bill: … a person [crosstalk 00:10:31.789] far away. An 8-year-old.

Kaite: An 8-year-old. The average reading level is roughly that of an 8-year-old, you know, and make sure that you’re explaining it in just everyday terms.

Bill: Right. And don’t expect them to know the jargon and don’t expect them to, you know, follow on with all the, in the weeds.

Kaite: And if you see their eyes glaze over.

Bill: You know, and it is one of those things. And it gets to Shawn’s, sort of, higher level intro. You know, the difference between somebody that operates as an analyst and somebody that operates at a strategic level is you need to understand all that stuff but you don’t need to talk in those terms. You need to be able to explain, you know, in simple terms like one or two sentences, not “Let me pull out my stats book and show you how a normal distribution works.”

Kaite: And you need to communicate with them in, like, the formats that they communicate with. You can’t just be like, “Oh, I slapped it up on the internet. It was there, like, I explained it.” If no one uses your internet, like, you need to make sure that you understand each of your different audience segments and how they want you to communicate with them and and cater to that. Don’t make them come to you. You’re going to them for this.

Bill: Yeah, face to face, still traditionally best. Makes things possible.

Kaite: Yeah, absolutely.

Shawn: And so there, Bill, the challenge there is in terms of communicating this in the language they understand is if you are an expert, if you are truly an expert in this, you should be able to just explain it simply.

Bill: Yes, exactly. Every expert should be able to, and you should be able to explain it both in terms they understand but also so that they believe you. And, you know, I know that sounds a little cheeky but if you can explain complicated things in simple terms and give whys, in addition to the facts, people will start to believe you and understand you and they’ll have faith, and what you tell them will then be more meaningful, more truthful, and they will then internalize it.

Kaite: And to be fair, that is one of the hardest things to do and it will take time and practice. Like anybody, no matter what they’re communicating, I mean, breaking down complicated topics in a way that’s easy for everybody to digest isn’t innately difficult. So you’re gonna have to, kind of, like, keep at it and don’t let, like, the setbacks, you know, frustrate you because it’s not just, “Oh, I’m not good at communicating,” it’s this is actually really hard to do for even the most seasoned, like, communications professional.

Bill: Right. And people who… Some people think that by using big words or big concepts makes them look smarter or more knowledgeable, and it’s actually the other way around.

Kaite: The other way around. It’s harder to make it easier to digest than it is to avenue, like, vocabulary words.

Shawn: We need to make it pedantic, do we?

Bill: No.

Shawn: No, I think, there are, I don’t know, tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of astrophysicists out there. You can name one, Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson. And there’s a reason he takes these really complicated things about physics and space and is like, “You know what that’s like? it’s like this. And here’s how that works and here’s what that means.” And you’re like, “Oh.” Do that same thing with comp, right? It can be a very arduous process. It can be overly cumbersome, but it doesn’t need to be. You can simplify this down so every manager can understand it. And by the way, if you can do that, that’s your first step into explaining to every single employee too, “Here’s why you’re paid what you’re paid.” The more simple that can be, the more they’re gonna remember it and the more it’s gonna resonate and they’re gonna think back to that.

Kaite: The other thing we didn’t mention is make sure that you’re giving your managers the tools and resources they need to then go out and communicate it to their employees, whatever those tools and resources may be. Maybe you have a cheat sheet on compensation and your company’s approach to compensation,.I don’t know. But make sure that you are giving them what they need. Or maybe the tools and resources are that you have open office hours, you know, whatever. Do you know where people can come talk to you about this? Whatever it may be, but make sure you are thinking about what they’ll need to communicate with their employees too.

Shawn: Yeah, put yourself in their shoes. It tends to be what works best. So what questions do you anticipate they’re gonna get? What questions do you get from employees? So if you’re getting them, for sure every manager is getting them too. How would you want them to answer when you’re not in the room?

Kaite: Yeah.

Bill: And I think, although we’re talking about keeping it simple, keeping the communication simple, it’s not keeping the concept simple or not being superficial. Like, you have to have depth. You have to have understanding of the whole system and make sure that you’re taking that into account in what you’re saying because, you know, the superficial version doesn’t carry the day with most people.

Shawn: Yeah, I think that’s right. I think we’ll probably get a little bit more into this in the next one in terms of the business ally, but that is foundational for this, right? If you, you need to understand your craft, what it means and what the trends are happening, how they impact the business well. And if you can do that, like we just said before, you should be able to simplify. But, you should be able to go really deep when you need to as well and you should understand what situation calls for which type of communication.

Bill: What is it you said? I can’t remember which one of you could, either said before. I’d like to, you know, ask why five times or something like that.

Shawn: The five whys.

Bill: The five whys, is you just keep asking why is that true? Why do we do this? You know, why is this night different from all the other nights? Makes me laugh. But, you know, basically dig deeper.

Shawn: Any good ideas were mostly Kaite’s and I just rip them off. So, if it was me, it was probably Kaite that said it.

Bill: Right. It was you. You forgot to footnote, Kaite.

Kaite: You’re always stealing my ideas. I’m just kidding.

Shawn: So, the five whys though are never take the superficial answer, right? It’s why is that a problem? Well, because blah. Why is that the case? What is it that you’re trying to do? I like… Just keep, in product… It’s a well-known thing in product development to use the five whys to get past the, “Well, why is it that you’re trying to do this?” “Well, because I can’t do this another way that you haven’t programmed for.” “Okay. Well, why is it that you’re trying to solve that?” You get to an answer after you ask the five whys. That’s really at the core of it. That’s not just the, “I can’t do this because…”

Bill: Correct.

Shawn: Drill deep.

Bill: Drill deep. I like it.

Shawn: So, we talked a little bit about managers and employees. The other way to go with this, there’s probably two other ways. One is within your department. How do you explain comp to recruiters especially because there’s typically gonna be a back and forth there of pricing jobs that they’re looking for and they might get more real time market data. How do you have that, meaning that they’re gonna get, they’re gonna hear what people are making out there in the market regardless of whether it’s said or not.

Kaite: I mean, I think, isn’t it a similar conversation with them? I mean, as similar that you’d have with your managers of explaining, like, “Here’s how I arrived at this number. Here’s what we do to get these numbers. Here’s what we believe as an organization, you know, in terms of our comp philosophy, and here could be some of the holes with what you’re hearing out there from people,” if it’s wildly off. Or, I mean, I guess on the flip side, the problem could be that you are not, you could not be paying enough for hot jobs.

Shawn: Right. There’s probably truth on both sides, if, I was gonna say. The flip side of that is gonna be the, the recruiter’ gonna come back in your scenario and say, “Listen, I get your data. I get why you’re saying that. Your data is a year to two years old. Nobody can find anybody with AI machine learning skills out there. We’re gonna have to pay a premium for this. What I’m hearing is 20% above what you’re telling me. What do you want me to do?” Right? So, there’s truth on both sides of that story.

Kaite: Yeah. I mean, then I would say that that goes, I think on the last episode or one of the most recent episodes, we brought up the episode about or the conversation that we’ve had with Patty McCord of you couldn’t afford to, maybe you can’t afford to pay someone that rate but could you afford to lose them either? And if no, then you need to make up the difference, right? And I’m clearly paraphrasing there.

Shawn: Yeah, I’m using a specific example intentionally with those skills. But any hot jobs can be that same thing. I think one of the things that you’ll see in the future of comp is that the systems and technology will get good enough to approach everything as a Market of One. So, we get away from ranges and similar structures, maybe even, and you start to look at that individual and say those specific skills and what the market’s like and take all that into account before you make your decision. I’m getting ahead of myself here, Bill.

Bill: That’s okay.

Shawn: I think in this instance though, you’re right, you need to have a good dialogue and thoroughly understand where your data is coming from, why the recency of it, how it applies to your organization, what percentage of that is art and science, if any art at all or if it’s ripped from real time, you’re good to go. In having that conversation with the recruiter. But…

Kaite: And don’t view the recruiter as the opposition. Like, you partner with them.

Shawn: Right. Both of your goals are to attract and retain the best talent for your organization.

Bill: The recruiter is a great source of real time data…

Shawn: Totally.

Bill: …because they’re talking to the market all the time.

Shawn: They’re gonna get it back as real time as possible.

Kaite: But also that data, like, is innately skewed, isn’t it?

Bill: It is.

Kaite: To a point.

Bill: Well, it can be skewed, sort of, naturally, if you will, but it can also be skewed by the nature of the role the recruiter is in. You know, it’s like if you, trying to be impartial here, if you think of, like, realtors. Realtors always tell you, “Oh well, if you offer x, you’ll definitely get the house.” Do you have to offer x? Like, what about 1% lower than, or 2% lower than x? You know, the realtor doesn’t have the incentive to get the perfect price. In fact, they have an incentive to get…

Kaite: For you to pay more.

Bill: For you to pay more. Everyone wins except you. The recruiter has a similar incentive. Although the recruiter and you, as Shawn said, are on the same team and, you know, you work for the same company, but the recruiter’s job gets easier as the ability to offer above market salaries, as the ability to offer above market salaries becomes easier. So, the recruiter is better off that way getting a bigger number. So you have to pressure test the data that the recruiter has.

Kaite: That’s what I mean. I’m just thinking. People skew what they’re looking to make or, you know, whatever range they’re in all the time.

Shawn: You’re always looking for a bump when you move to your next job.

Kaite: Yeah, exactly.

Bill: Right. And so, you know, it’s not to say anybody’s lying or cheating or deceiving, it’s just that you have to look at all your sources and keep in mind what’s real, what’s affordable, how do you get around it. And make sure that the recruiter knows their numbers and their market as well as you know your job, you know, and try and come up with what’s the right answer. And then, I think you were saying this in a different way, but, and don’t be stupid, you know. Don’t, like, lose the best candidate ever because you won’t go up $1,000 a year.

Kaite: I feel like that is like an important thing too. I mean, we’re getting, I guess, off topic because it’s communication here but, like…

Shawn: Future podcast.

Bill: We’ll be strategic.

Kaite: If it’s the 5k difference, what’s that boil down to annually?

Bill: Right. 5k.

Kaite: Well, I meant like, I guess I meant monthly.

Shawn: Good with the math. I always thought that about you.

Kaite: I meant monthly.

Bill: Then it would be 60.

Kaite: Can we edit this out?

Shawn: Can we keep this in?

Kaite: I have to go home.

Shawn: So, yeah, keep those things in mind and know that… I think one of the things we like to say around here anyways is assume positive intent, to your point with all that.

Bill: Absolutely.

Shawn: The recruiter is trying to accomplish the same goal as you, slightly different way of approaching it. Find that ground, get the deal done. Don’t be so stringent or so strict in your thoughts and philosophies that you can’t figure out creative and flexible ways to solve problems. There’s always a creative solution to a problem.

Bill: Right. But it is, I mean, coming back to what we’re talking about here in this whole series of podcasts is be strategic.

Shawn: Be thoughtful about it.

Bill: Be thoughtful about it. And the analyst says, “This is the market, you know. We’ll pay $83,000 for that job.” You know, and if $85,000 is going to close the deal with a great candidate, gets that person in today, you know, that might be the right answer.

Shawn: Yeah. And so, the other audience that I was hinting at earlier is executives, the leaders in the organization, and how you communicate with them especially because, again, they’re probably not gonna be well educated on compensation other than personal experience, unless you’re talking about CHRO, maybe, but they’re also going to be way more in tune most likely with what the business is trying to accomplish that year. So if you can tie into those initiatives, those goals, those KPIs, way more well perceived…

Kaite: You also have a much shorter opportunity, I feel like, to get their attention, just given the influx of communication on at every level that they’re getting. So I think it’s super important to the best of your ability, learn who you’re communicating with, like learn their communication style and what will they actually respond to and how they prefer to communicate. Like Bill, we’ve talked about this in previous podcasts. If I wanna do an episode with you next week about, you know, a specific topic, my best bet is to come swing by your office and talk to you about it really quickly. Shawn, if I have something I need to run by you, my best bet is to send you a one-line email. And I feel like people don’t always think about, like, how each individual or maybe each group likes to communicate.

Shawn: Bill also accepts treats.

Kaite: Like, dog treats?

Bill: No, no.

Shawn: The more candylicious, the better.

Kaite: We’re really creating this, like, character of Bill Coleman.

Bill: I actually had a serious comment.

Kaite: What? You had a what?

Bill: Sorry to interrupt with actual content. When you’re talking to the, you know, senior management, the leadership team or whatever, you know, it might be helpful to think before you talk to those people or that person, the opposite of the five whys, the five becauses, you know. And to back to my example of should we pay 85 instead of 82 or 83, whatever it was I said, you go and say, “I think we should do this because we’ll get somebody on board quickly, because we’re having a problem delivering a certain new product, because this is creating stress for other people, because, you know, the recruiters need to move on to some other job that’s also important. All of these things are gonna help the company achieve its goals better, faster, more profitably.”

Kaite: What you’re saying is reminding me of when Mike Zani was on a couple weeks ago on one of the recent episodes and he was talking about their head of people, Jackie Doobie, had just presented. I don’t remember what it was, some sort of report to him and he basically was saying that she could have taken easy way out and just said, “Here’s all the information. Like, what do you think we should do?” And instead, like, took the time to digest it, break it down, involve other people if needed, present it them with all of those becauses answered of like, “Here’s what the data says, and here’s what we need to do about it, and here’s why we need to do that about it.”

Shawn: And if you want to flip the normal way that comp budgets are derived on its head, that’s critical. It’s not enough just to say, “Oh, the board,” or I should say, it’s not enough to accept my opinion, “Oh, the board said that this is what’s gonna happen this year so here’s your budget for all cost of living,” or it will lead to cost of living. “Here’s your budget for all raises.” If you wanna influence that and think more creatively about it, digest that info, right? Here’s what market pricings are saying we need to do, and for some of those, yup, 2% to 3% might be enough. Or for some of those, we might just not care if we have turnover there because we plan for it. But for others, when you know that there are people that you need to keep or that there’s key roles that you need to attract, be more thoughtful and present what that budget might look like before they get into that season. Elevate, have them elevate that to the board. It’s always conversation. It’s all about communication, Bill.

Bill: Why Bill?

Kaite: He just wants you to know .

Bill: Okay. Thank you .

Shawn: Making it personal. There’s a lot of people out there listening just…

Kaite: Millions, in fact.

Shawn: Millions?

Kaite: I believe so. We are at millions now.

Shawn: Maybe collectively. It’s just the three of us listening. Just the three of us listening, yeah, most likely. Bill just listens over and over and over again and then he downloads it on thousands of devices.

Kaite: He listens to it all through night on a loop.

Shawn: Bill’s got 1,000 iPhones at his house and he just lines them up to download “Comp + Coffee.”

Kaite: He could. He’s such a mystery that he could.

Shawn: Bill lives in an Apple store. So, can we recap? Recap…

Kaite: Do our best.

Bill: I had a Blackberry until a couple of years ago.

Kaite: All right. We’re not gonna go there, Bill.

Shawn: I don’t know what to do with that. Not touching that. To recap. If you can be very efficient and organized in your job, which is what we talked about last time, then you should have more time to start thinking more strategically about your role and what the effect it has on your company. What that enables you do, and we’ll talk more about the strategy side next time, but the first step in that, it’s foundational to understand where the data is coming from, what it means, what your company’s looking to do with it, right? That’s the foundation. That is like the day-to-day comp stuff. If you have that pretty well mastered and set, communicate it. Get people to buy into the strategy and philosophy of compensation, get them to understand it very simplistically, cater to it at every level of your organization, the executives, your department, you know, so up, out within your department and then also “down” to the managers and employees. Make sure all those audiences are well-communicated with at the level of which they understand it and where they’re going to get that communication, and that might be multiple times over.

Kaite: It should be.

Shawn: It very well should be, and creative different ways are always applauded,. So do that. That’s the foundation for being a strategic ally through your organization. We’ll talk more about that next time, as long as Jerry Seinfeld doesn’t sue us in the meantime.

Kaite: Please don’t.

Bill: I think if we say his name too many times, he may.

Kaite: Like, Beetlejuice?

Shawn: He might just appear in the podcast. What’s the deal with this room?

Kaite: Jerry Seinfeld, Jerry Seinfeld, Jerry Seinfeld.

Shawn: Just three people sit in here and talk?

Bill: This isn’t funny at all.

Shawn: Why does one of them like to fight? Why does one of them always talk about somebody that likes to fight?

Kaite: Why does one laugh like a maniac?

Bill: Why did they not edit this out of the podcast?

Shawn: That’s the better question. All right. So hopefully these are helpful. It is our belief that every comp analyst has a comp strategist within them. We believe that comp is inherently strategic and needs to be elevated more than it typically is in organizations. So it is our goal through this series of podcasts and through a bunch of other stuff that you will see us doing to help educate on that. But in saying that, we’re open to your thoughts, we’re open to your feedback, what might help you. Hit us up,, and hopefully we’ll see you on the next one.

Bill: See them.

Shawn: See them.

Kaite: We’ll meet you here.

Shawn: Hopefully, we’ll talk to you next time.

Bill: All right.